Wheels
New wire wheels are available from PJ Hallewell engineering in Uxbridge in the UK
John Bannister
This is the reason why you must never over-tighten the wheel spinner nuts on our old cars. All 4 hubs on my 1938 VA Tourer were cracked like this due to over stretching because previous owner(s) have regularly hammered them much too hard! These cracks were already 1/3 through the metal hub wall. Cracks only ever get worse and this fault will likely finally give way under severe cornering or braking stress, then the wheel(s) will simply fall off!
If you install new hubs and half shafts should the wheel hubs be changed as well?
It is good practice to replace the wheel hubs at the same time. This will also involve fitting new spokes into the wheels, which is important as these start to fail individually after long use and sometimes they fracture out of sight behind the wheel rims. Fractured spokes put significantly more strain onto the adjacent spokes, which then risk premature failure too!
A good way to spot a broken wheel spoke is to look for brown rust stains where the spokes enter the hub/wheel rim, or alternatively regularly tap the spokes with a screwdriver handle to see if they all 'ping' at the same sound level and pitch..
David Spiegel
I removed all of the wheels and gave the wheel hubs, the axle hubs and spinner cap a good cleaning with petrol and brush. I put a light coating of grease on the surfaces and reassembled with a few good hammer whacks. With assistance, the brakes were applied with the car on jacks. Where there had previously been movement in the direction of wheel movement, now there is none on any of the wheels.
Bob Grunau
Hub splines outside diameters can be measured and wheel centre inside diameter can be measured to determine conditions. I can’t find my drawing for the 52 mm hubs. However the 42 mm hubs should have an OD of 2.450” across the splines and the splines should have a flat on the top. One thing that has not been mentioned, the wheel inner splines can cut into the back taper on the hub if the wheel has been abused. If this is the case, I grind off the inner ends of the wheel spline so the wheel can sit fully on the back taper
Charlie P-J
It is a very good idea to degrease and visually inspect the hubs for cracks especially in the bottom of the threads. I have not had the problem myself but there are some worrying pictures around showing hubs cracking. A crack at this point would absorb the tension created by the spinner and allow wheel movement.
On the other hand I have always used one of those Spinner Spanner’s made out of very thick plywood with a spinner shaped hole in the centre. I can give this a few whacks with a mallet without any risk of damage to the spinners. I got mine from the Octagon Car Club several years ago.
One issue I did have was that the wheels had been powder coated on the outer taper that the spinner tightened onto. This ‘plastic’ surface initially stuck to the spinner and created excessive ‘stiction’ which gave the false impression that the spinner was adequately tightened onto the hub. Once I had figured this out a smear of grease on this wheel taper, rather than removing the powder coat, solved the problem and allowed the wheel to be properly tightened down.
Malcolm
Steve explains the mechanism nicely and he is right about over-tightening and the brake drum nuts. The problem we face is how do we as mere weaklings tinkering with our old MGs work out that 220 torque figure. One man’s good belt with the mallet is probably another man’s gentle tap. I think Dave needs to give the spinners a good belt by his standards and see if that helps. If it doesn’t, then he can address the other possibilities. The good belt (by my standards and I’m no weightlifter) has worked on the Airy Coupe now for 80 years (170,000 miles) and it is still on its original wheels and spinners. New rear hubs have been fitted in the past, but due more to axle issues than wheel issues.
Steve Simmons
The rear taper and hub splines share the load to prevent the wheel from moving. Since it's a friction surface, I prefer to run the rear tapers with only the lightest smear or grease or oil to prevent corrosion. If the splines look good but the wheel is still moving fore/aft, the first thing to check is that they haven't been over-tightened in the past. Tightening the spinner too far will cause the inner taper of the wheel centre to ride up too far on the hub, and stretch the wheel centre This not only has the effect of allowing the wheel to go on too far, but also loosens the inner spoke tension.
Check to ensure the rear face of the wheel hub isn't contacting the brake drum or brake drum nuts / studs. You can check for this by putting something like a dab of grease on one side, install the wheel and remove again to see if it's now on both sides. If it's touching, then the wheel is ruined and will never tighten properly. Or, the studs or nuts are incorrect and protrude too far toward the wheel.
When greasing the splines, also make sure to put a light coating of grease on the outside surface of the outermost portion of the wheel centre, where the spinner covers it up.. You will notice that the spinner has a tapered surface inside, which rides over the wheel centre as you spin it on. This is how the wheel is held centred over the splined hub. The rear taper centres the inside, and the spinner grabs the exterior of the outer edge. If this exterior area isn't greased, the spinner may grab, or dig into the paint before fully tightening. Surprisingly, chrome wheels seem to be even worse about this.
The spinner should never be over-tightened. If the wheel won't lock down with a few good whacks then something is probably knackered. I've heard specs given for 42mm hubs of 220 lbs/ft but I don't know if 52mm are the same. I hammer the spinner tight while off the ground (for the same reason as bolt-on wheels - ensuring they are centred), and then a couple extra whacks once lowered. When then tip of the spinner ear moves less than 1/4" per solid hit, that's tight enough. From there, if all is right, they should self-tighten as you drive until they reach the proper torque. Tightening further by hammer risks over-tightening and damaging the wheel centres.
For 12 pound 10 shilling fully painted Ace wheel discs could be had when ordering a new MG VA. For a little more you could have them fully polished or painted with a chrome ring.
It did a lot to enhance the looks of an MG VA, although many people regard it as not done for a sporting car. Abingdon was convinced it looked better and virtually all factory entered show and rally VA's had them fitted.
The number A.423.B is stamped in the backside of the hub. The screw lock ring says ACE patent Super Discs
BdV
John Bannister
This is the reason why you must never over-tighten the wheel spinner nuts on our old cars. All 4 hubs on my 1938 VA Tourer were cracked like this due to over stretching because previous owner(s) have regularly hammered them much too hard! These cracks were already 1/3 through the metal hub wall. Cracks only ever get worse and this fault will likely finally give way under severe cornering or braking stress, then the wheel(s) will simply fall off!
If you install new hubs and half shafts should the wheel hubs be changed as well?
It is good practice to replace the wheel hubs at the same time. This will also involve fitting new spokes into the wheels, which is important as these start to fail individually after long use and sometimes they fracture out of sight behind the wheel rims. Fractured spokes put significantly more strain onto the adjacent spokes, which then risk premature failure too!
A good way to spot a broken wheel spoke is to look for brown rust stains where the spokes enter the hub/wheel rim, or alternatively regularly tap the spokes with a screwdriver handle to see if they all 'ping' at the same sound level and pitch..
David Spiegel
I removed all of the wheels and gave the wheel hubs, the axle hubs and spinner cap a good cleaning with petrol and brush. I put a light coating of grease on the surfaces and reassembled with a few good hammer whacks. With assistance, the brakes were applied with the car on jacks. Where there had previously been movement in the direction of wheel movement, now there is none on any of the wheels.
Bob Grunau
Hub splines outside diameters can be measured and wheel centre inside diameter can be measured to determine conditions. I can’t find my drawing for the 52 mm hubs. However the 42 mm hubs should have an OD of 2.450” across the splines and the splines should have a flat on the top. One thing that has not been mentioned, the wheel inner splines can cut into the back taper on the hub if the wheel has been abused. If this is the case, I grind off the inner ends of the wheel spline so the wheel can sit fully on the back taper
Charlie P-J
It is a very good idea to degrease and visually inspect the hubs for cracks especially in the bottom of the threads. I have not had the problem myself but there are some worrying pictures around showing hubs cracking. A crack at this point would absorb the tension created by the spinner and allow wheel movement.
On the other hand I have always used one of those Spinner Spanner’s made out of very thick plywood with a spinner shaped hole in the centre. I can give this a few whacks with a mallet without any risk of damage to the spinners. I got mine from the Octagon Car Club several years ago.
One issue I did have was that the wheels had been powder coated on the outer taper that the spinner tightened onto. This ‘plastic’ surface initially stuck to the spinner and created excessive ‘stiction’ which gave the false impression that the spinner was adequately tightened onto the hub. Once I had figured this out a smear of grease on this wheel taper, rather than removing the powder coat, solved the problem and allowed the wheel to be properly tightened down.
Malcolm
Steve explains the mechanism nicely and he is right about over-tightening and the brake drum nuts. The problem we face is how do we as mere weaklings tinkering with our old MGs work out that 220 torque figure. One man’s good belt with the mallet is probably another man’s gentle tap. I think Dave needs to give the spinners a good belt by his standards and see if that helps. If it doesn’t, then he can address the other possibilities. The good belt (by my standards and I’m no weightlifter) has worked on the Airy Coupe now for 80 years (170,000 miles) and it is still on its original wheels and spinners. New rear hubs have been fitted in the past, but due more to axle issues than wheel issues.
Steve Simmons
The rear taper and hub splines share the load to prevent the wheel from moving. Since it's a friction surface, I prefer to run the rear tapers with only the lightest smear or grease or oil to prevent corrosion. If the splines look good but the wheel is still moving fore/aft, the first thing to check is that they haven't been over-tightened in the past. Tightening the spinner too far will cause the inner taper of the wheel centre to ride up too far on the hub, and stretch the wheel centre This not only has the effect of allowing the wheel to go on too far, but also loosens the inner spoke tension.
Check to ensure the rear face of the wheel hub isn't contacting the brake drum or brake drum nuts / studs. You can check for this by putting something like a dab of grease on one side, install the wheel and remove again to see if it's now on both sides. If it's touching, then the wheel is ruined and will never tighten properly. Or, the studs or nuts are incorrect and protrude too far toward the wheel.
When greasing the splines, also make sure to put a light coating of grease on the outside surface of the outermost portion of the wheel centre, where the spinner covers it up.. You will notice that the spinner has a tapered surface inside, which rides over the wheel centre as you spin it on. This is how the wheel is held centred over the splined hub. The rear taper centres the inside, and the spinner grabs the exterior of the outer edge. If this exterior area isn't greased, the spinner may grab, or dig into the paint before fully tightening. Surprisingly, chrome wheels seem to be even worse about this.
The spinner should never be over-tightened. If the wheel won't lock down with a few good whacks then something is probably knackered. I've heard specs given for 42mm hubs of 220 lbs/ft but I don't know if 52mm are the same. I hammer the spinner tight while off the ground (for the same reason as bolt-on wheels - ensuring they are centred), and then a couple extra whacks once lowered. When then tip of the spinner ear moves less than 1/4" per solid hit, that's tight enough. From there, if all is right, they should self-tighten as you drive until they reach the proper torque. Tightening further by hammer risks over-tightening and damaging the wheel centres.
For 12 pound 10 shilling fully painted Ace wheel discs could be had when ordering a new MG VA. For a little more you could have them fully polished or painted with a chrome ring.
It did a lot to enhance the looks of an MG VA, although many people regard it as not done for a sporting car. Abingdon was convinced it looked better and virtually all factory entered show and rally VA's had them fitted.
The number A.423.B is stamped in the backside of the hub. The screw lock ring says ACE patent Super Discs
BdV